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Strength of Kratos...?

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Strength of Kratos...?

Postby CIDE » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:21 pm

Figuring Kratos' strength via Cronos fight. Attempting calculations that to me are pretty advanced. Willing to take criticism if someone (LOGICALLY) disagrees with these estimates. I will be going by low end figures for this estimate as well.

Source links:
https://www.efunda.com/forum/show_messa ... 4&id=11030
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_a ... g_can_lift
http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/growthch ... t_male.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxHk3esxis8

Average male weight: 189.9 lbs
Average weight lifted: body weight
Average male grip strength: 106 lbs

Estimating Cronos' size:

For this I point everyone to the youtube link posted. In this case we can see that Kratos--at best-- is as tall as maybe a 1/5th of the titan's fingernail. While I could find no links on a comparison of fingernail size (length) to finger/hand size I used my own hand as a judge: My fingernail is approximately 1/6 the overall length of my index finger. My index finger is half the overall length of my hand (while mentioned as an average I can't find the link for the source on this).

Using this as a scale I'm going to attempt to figure out exactly how large the Titan is. Then continue on up to figure out his dimensions and use human cell density (once again low end) to get an approximate weight. Following that I will use the average human lifting strength (link above) to get an approximation on Cronos' strength. Then (once again the links above) figure out grip strength based on that (average is about 55% overall lifting strength on average).

That would (theoretically) lead us to a strength feat for Kratos.

If someone knows of an official height on Kratos please let me know. Until then I will use an average of 5'10" (70 inches, 177.8 cm) for Kratos in order to do these calculations.

69 inches x 5= 345 inches
345x6= 2,070 inches (finger length)
2,070x2= 4,140 (hand length)

Now I direct you to the average human proportions chart. The average hand length is a hair more than 1/9 the overall height of the person. Once again for low end we'll round down and use the 1/9 figure.

4,140x9= 37,260 inches (overall height)

37,260 inches= 3,105 feet=946.4m

Cronos is nearly a kilometer tall as a low end.

Now to scale the weight to the height.

Cronos is 540x taller than the average human. Perhaps someone knows a better formula (I'm winging it here) but if we did that to the average weight (and Cronos is definitely not of the proper girth for "average" weight) we'd get 102,546 pounds. That translates to 51,273 tons. Assuming Cronos can lift his own weight as with the average and the average grip strength is between 50-60% max lifting strength it puts Cronos grip strength 28,200 tons.

Obviously Kratos wasn't dealing with the entire of Kronos grip strength. However, I can't break it down any further than that (with a finger basis) to get any more accurate than that. I find it extremely unlikely to think though that an overall grip strength of 25k+ tons would somehow equal less than 100 tons of strength.



I await the inevitable flaming for doing the calculations wrong.
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Re: Strength of Kratos...?

Postby Matapiojo » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am

I'm not going to bash or support calcs at this time, but this is indeed something that needs to be looked at.

I wonder, though...why are you basing your calcs off Cronos's grip as opposed to his palm-press? Kratos's strength seems a ton more impressive when he pushes up a pressing palm after the titan slaps it down on him, than pushing fingers aside.

And on that note (general skepticism...not against CIDE's calcs), how can Kratos be able to do that at all!!!???

Tanking a palm slap from the mightiest Titan of all, and pushing his crushing hand aside is no small feat. Not throwing calcs around, but I guesstimate that is at the very least double of what CIDE came up with for the grip. How can a guy that struggles with gates that MAY be a few hundred pounds all throughout the trilogy suddenly be able to tank and lift 100+ tons?

I guess the real question here would be, is Kratos's strength the thing that needs to be meassured for a feat, or should we focus on his adrenaline? Because call me nuts, but that seems more like an Incredible Hulk "madder I get, stronger I get" feat than an outright strength feat. A guy that has that much muscle on his side should have effortlessly swatted everything aside at least after the Cronos fight (in case that was some sort of plot boost).

I think the creative team took one major liberty there for the sake of the "kewl", and didn't propperly back it up.
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Re: Strength of Kratos...?

Postby Hitman H94 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:12 am

SOOO.....MUCH....MATHS!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Strength of Kratos...?

Postby CIDE » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:17 pm

You bring up some good points, Mata. My only answer to that (aside from the one you proposed) is the possibility of game mechanics being part of the fuckery. The gates I can't really explain though and I do recall those. I'd at least put my geusstimate of their weight above a few hundred pounds though.
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Re: Strength of Kratos...?

Postby Matapiojo » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:39 am

CIDE wrote:I'd at least put my geusstimate of their weight above a few hundred pounds though.


Right. Versus the palm of the (arguably) strongest titan slapping down on Kratos and actively trying to crush the ascended Spartan, I would say that anything under a ton should be the equivalent of him picking up his dirty sock off the ground.

I can see your point, though. That is still sort of game-mechanicky. That said, if we were to take that feat as his upper limit, it should still make a ton of other feats a lot more trivial. Each one of his blade swings shouldeviscerate even cyclops all throughout the game(s). Nevermind all the push-push-push events we get as he "strugles" to effectuate a strength feat. Him tearing off Helios's heas should have been no harder than a casual flick of the wrist.

The Cronos fight was cool and all, but it absolutely sky-rocketted Kratos's strength tier on a site like FP. He can easily be Hulk/Thor equal now.

...well, at least in those guys' normal limits...
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Re: Strength of Kratos...?

Postby EnigmaJ » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:20 am

I think you converted the pounds to tons incorrectly. 100,000 pounds is only around 50 tons.

That aside, assuming the average body density remains the same ( which doesn't really slide, but then again, this thing is probably thousands of meters tall so I think we can throw the Square-Cube Law out the window ), the total mass would increase linearly with volume, not height. Basically you need to take into account Chronos' increased width and length, as well as height... meaning if we use the scaling method, Chronos would actually weight a lot more than even the figure you originally arrived at.

I'm just going to guestimate a bt with your numbers... so uhh... assuming Chronos is perfectly scaled up from a normal human, his width and length should increase by the same factor as his height did. Multiply average weight by 540^3 or 540 three times and we get something along the lines of 30,000,000,000 pounds ( or somewhat above 13,000,000 metric tons ).

Kratos's strength seems a ton more impressive when he pushes up a pressing palm after the titan slaps it down on him, than pushing fingers aside.


I watched the video, and to be honest, the palm press didn't strike me as too impressive. Kratos has seemingly struggled with much weaker things, and you can't pass them off as game mechanics without writing off the Chronos feat as game mechanics too.

Although, I think there is a reasonable explanations to this "discrepancy" that doesn't require writing anything off as game mechanics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxHk3esxis8

At 6:55, you see the hand come down and you see Kratos attempting to push the hand upwards. Its possible that the hand is oriented in such a way that palm of hand didn't come cleanly over Kratos ( especially when both your hands are facing the same direction as Chronos hand was, there's going to be some empty space... especially in the center of the palm, where Kratos happened to be ). Its possible that what Kratos found himself in one of these pockets and what he was pushing up against was merely a section of skin ( since skin is relatively soft and flexible ) that would have otherwise pinned him down or crushed him. Once Kratos had adequate elbow room, he stabbed his sword into his hand, which caused him to reel back.

I'm not too sure about the finger poking scene yet though.
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Re: Strength of Kratos...?

Postby Matapiojo » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:34 am

That seems to be a big stretch, though.

In fact, I could equally argue that Cronos's hands are extensively calloused from trotting around with the temple on his back for Zeus-knows how long. In such an instance, I wouldnt expect to find any more soft tissue on the palm of his hands than on a armadillo's plating.
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Re: Strength of Kratos...?

Postby Random guy » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:00 pm

If we're examining strength feats, what about when Kratos was stepped on by the colossus and threw it clean off it's feat in GOW 2. Granted this was when he had the power of a god, but we do have matches where he has access to that power. Also regarding Kratos ripping of Helios's head, perhaps being a god gave Helios stronger flesh and bone, and so that's why Kratos struggled a bit with it?
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Re: Strength of Kratos...?

Postby CIDE » Mon May 02, 2011 10:35 pm

The Helios thing is impossible to quantify. Unless of course we have durability feats on him. In which case we could use that as a gauge as well.
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Re: Strength of Kratos...?

Postby Matapiojo » Tue May 03, 2011 7:15 am

CIDE wrote:The Helios thing is impossible to quantify. Unless of course we have durability feats on him. In which case we could use that as a gauge as well.


But in turn it will be equally impossible to quantify as his appearance on the franchise is quite brief, and his endurance could only be guaged by establishing the strength of Perses (the lava titan).

In fact, the easiest way to establish Helios's endurance is ironicaly by establishing Kratos's strength since it is the one feat best exemplified through the entire franchise.
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